(gentle music) - [Alison] On the season premiere of "The A-List," I talk with an eclectic performer who has devoted his career to finding truth in storytelling.

- Just working with him, I thought, oh, it can be really exciting and it can be really, you know, that thing, there's no small parts, only small actors, and actually any part, doesn't matter the size, the nuance and the impact you can make in the whole story can be huge.

And that really stuck with me and kinda revived my whole interest in acting, actually.

- Join me as I sit down with award-winning actor Alan Cumming, coming up next on "The A List."

(upbeat music) Alan Cumming is a multi-talented actor of both stage and screen, a producer, and a bestselling author.

He is a five-time Emmy nominee and has earned two Tony Awards, a Scottish BAFTA Award, a New York Emmy, and nominations for both the Golden Globes and the Grammys.

Whether you know him from "Cabaret," "Spy Kids," "X-Men," or even as a host of PBS's "Masterpiece Mystery," Alan infuses his performances with wit, charm, and talent.

His passion and advocacy for the arts takes him all around the world, and it brought him to Chattanooga in September, 2023, where he was the featured guest at Arts Build's inaugural Intermission Event.

I had the chance to sit down with Alan at the UTC Fine Arts Center, where we were joined by an audience of theater students who enjoyed an opportunity to learn from a master of the craft.

(audience cheering and clapping) Well, Alan, welcome to "The A-List."

- Thank you very much, it's nice to be here, - And welcome to Chattanooga and welcome to the UTC Fine Arts Center.

Most of all, we're just thrilled that Arts Build has brought you here as part of Intermission, their event, and we're thrilled that Arts Build is part of our community, because, like you, they're all about infusing the arts in a community and building a stronger community through the arts.

- Absolutely, I think it's a great organization.

I'm very happy to be able to support it in any way.

- So you said yes to coming to Chattanooga.

I have to ask why?

I know you say yes to a lot of things, but why, why is this important?

Why is something about the arts in a relatively small town in the South?

- Well, I mean, a variety of reasons, but I mean, I like coming to parts of America or parts of the world where I've never been.

I'm invited to something, and I love coming to something where I know it's going to be about the arts and regeneration and education and honoring people who have been a part of those great traits.

And so there's that.

And also, I just love kind of adventure.

I love sort of thinking, this sounds nuts, I'll go to Chattanooga.

(Alison laughing) And so yeah, that's why I came.

And I actually like coming and sort of finding out what's going on in parts of America where, from the outside, you might not imagine what had as healthy and positive an arts life as this one does here.

So I always think it, especially now, you know, I think if there's a definite scary turn in the way that all these anti-trans bills and anti-LGBT bills are going across America and indeed in Tennessee and in that situation, I always think if what that means is that people are actually scared, they're afraid of the other, of the unknown, of what they don't understand, so I think all the more reason that queer people like me should come and say hello 'cause I'm not scary.

- Yeah, not at all.

- I just play scary people on TV sometimes.

- Well, and I know that, look, acting and singing and being in the arts was always a goal, and really, it feels very ingrained into who you are, but being an ambassador and an activist and that responsibility, did you ever imagine that you would have that also on your shoulders as you ascended those ranks?

- No, I mean, and in many ways I didn't, or in many areas, I had no idea that I would become this sort of activist ambassador person, and then if, what I love actually is that I'm not, it's just who I am.

It's just, I think I come from Scotland where I think people are much more concerned with fairness and justice and speaking out against injustice and I just always kind of lived my life the way I've wanted to and the way I think I need to.

And so in the course of doing that, I've sort of inspired people and I mean, basically people come up to me and say, "Oh, you know, you've inspired me," blah, blah, blah, and I've just basically been myself.

So it's a kind of an amazing and sort of, you know, accidental thing.

I think I would be as politically active if I weren't famous.

I think I've always, you know, again, coming from Scotland, I've been always been politically active.

Now, of course, I have a bit more of a platform, and I feel it's, and I do feel there's a duty that if you are in the public eye and if part of the reason that people like you is because of your openness and your authenticity, then I think you have a duty to give back and to keep being authentic about the things that really matter.

- Truth is important to you.

- Big time, yeah.

- Can I ask about your tattoo?

- Yes.

(laughs) Which one?

- So one here.

- Yes, this one here?

- Yeah.

I don't know if we can see it, yeah, Only Connect.

- Only Connect.

- Yeah, "Howards End."

- "Howards End," yeah, E.M. Forster yes.

- [Alison] Yeah.

- So it's a quote by, there's a sort of a theme in Howard's End about connection and things like that and for me, I don't know, I just became obsessed with it and this idea that you've got to make sure you connect with people, like the idea of...

I once had therapy that was about, you weren't allowed to move on to the next subject until the person, it was couples therapy, till the other person would say back what you had said to them and you knew that they had got what you meant and they were saying it in the way that you intended.

And the idea of this relief when you realize you'd properly connected with someone.

That was for a terrible toxic relationship, which I'm not in anymore, but (audience laughing) it's actually a really important thing to me and has been ever since to make sure that I connect properly with people and I really see them properly and they see me properly.

And also, there's a thing that Forster had, which was Howard's End was one of his famous novels, but he also, he was a gay man who couldn't be open and out in the time he was writing.

He wrote a book called "Maurice" which was about a gay love story, and that wasn't able to be published, until, like, something 35 years after his death.

So for him, there was this added thing of making sure that your desire, the life you want to live, is connected to who you actually are.

- Yeah.

- And that is, that's a connection I feel is very important, too.

- Well, a lot of people talk about that quote, speaking to them that if you don't have the head and the heart in everything you do, then it really doesn't have that genuine merit.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I think a healthy balance of both is essential.

(upbeat music) - Alan's commitment to finding truth and authenticity in his work has made for some indelible performances throughout an eclectic 40-year career.

He's contributed his talents to cult classics and big name blockbusters.

He's played evil villains and tragic Shakespearean heroes.

Whether small or large, dramatic or comedic, Alan's roles are always sure to make an impact.

So is there a litmus test you use to say yes to a part or no to a part?

- It's very gut.

I mean, I just, I... No, there's not like a regular sort of, you know, I don't have a checklist.

I just feel, you know, so if I feel some connection to it, and if I feel, you know, if what I've just done, if it is very different to what I've just done, I'm more predisposed to go for it.

If it's people I want to, you know, that I'm excited to work with- There's no real, it's very gut.

And sometimes, you know, I think I surprise my agents and things by saying yes to things that they didn't think I'd want to do and vice versa.

And I just sort of do things.

Again, it's like the way I live my life, I just do what I feel I want to do and it's gone pretty well so far.

I mean, sometimes they'll try and persuade me to do something or dissuade me, but rarely 'cause also, you know, I've been around the block a bit.

My agents are all much younger than me, so I've got to kind of boss them about and just, you know, they don't boss me.

So I just sort of, yeah, I just kind of, I just do what I want and I'm aware that that's a very rare and special position to have.

But also, I don't really buy into the kind of, I mean, I don't care if I- You know, last year I went and did a dance theater piece, a solo dance theater piece in Scotland, so I was away for like six months of the year doing something that really interested me.

I mean, a lot of people saw it, but not in the grand scheme of things.

It was a bizarre thing to do for a man of 57 who'd never danced before, but I just fancied it and it was really important to me and so I off and went and did it.

So I'm not exactly on the ladder of, you know, world domination.

(Alison laughing) I do things, I am aware that I sometimes have to do things that you put, like, the Hollywood Bank, I call it, you make a deposit in the Hollywood Bank and then you can withdraw from the Hollywood Bank when you go off to Scotland and dance.

So I am aware of that.

So sometimes my decisions are based on, well, I should probably do something that's a bit more mainstream or something now, but most of the time I just do what I like.

- And is there a part, though, that was a real stretch for you?

You look back and think, oh my, it's amazing that I could ever play that, besides Eli Gold, which we know was kind of the antithesis of you?

From "The Good Wife," that was... - I mean, yes, I mean, I...

But sometimes it's really good to, sometimes it's freeing to play someone who's so different to you 'cause, you know, so you're actually not, it's not an extension of you, it's an entire new thing you're putting on top of you and that can be more fun.

But I always think 'cause the first film I made in America, the first time I ever worked in America was "Romy and Michele's High School Reunion."

I'd never played an American before.

I'd never been in a studio, you know, a Hollywood picture made in Hollywood before.

I dunno why they cast me in that role, I really don't.

I'd never been to a prom, I didn't know what, I didn't know what the prom was, I'd never been to a reunion.

I was just, like, there's often, people ask me to do things and sometimes I say to 'em, I don't think, I think someone better could do this.

I really do, I often, I do say that because I just feel like sometimes when you're famous and people, you know, there's a reason why they want you to be in something, and sometimes I think that can cloud the actual how good you might be at it, you know?

And I'm always getting asked to play people in drag, and I'm now, I get it, I get why people ask me, and I have done it a couple times, but I'm not very good at it, I'm not a very good drag queen, and I'm not... (audience laughing) and I'm not an attractive lady.

I can do, (audience laughing) I can do androgyny very well, but when I go the whole hog, it's not pretty.

- Too far, too far.

- Yeah.

I'm not, yeah.

But I've done a couple, like, I played a transvestite in a mini series in South Africa.

That was really great, I really loved that.

But you know, I get asked to do a lot of sort of drag, draggy adjacent things, and I'm just not, I don't know, I think people could do it much better than me.

So I always try and advise them who that might be.

- Truth, truth, speak the truth.

- Truth, yes.

(laughs) - So some of the roles that have been, it seems, most impactful to you in your career were not necessarily the ones where you were the star and the main attraction and I wanna talk about your experience with "Eyes Wide Shut."

- Right.

- When you were asked to, and it's like a two-and-a-half minute scene that you're in.

- Yeah.

- But I understand that that interaction on set and how it played a role in the way that you sort of approached acting and other roles in the future was significant.

- It was.

I mean, it was a confluence of many things, but I basically, I'd gone to Hollywood and done "Romy and Michele" and this other film called "Buddy," and then I'd, like, run, I actually got like a red eye practically, I mean, it was, I know, I did a night shoot, it was the last day on the film, and I got straight on a plane to Europe from that, I didn't even go to bed, I was so desperate to get out and I went back to Europe and made sort of a weird little film.

And I just was like, oh, I don't want to go and I didn't really, the whole experience of being in LA didn't like, I just was in a weird place in my life, I had a couple- So basically then they said, "oh, you know, Stanley wants you to do this part," and actually, he made me realize, 'cause it's a tiny scene, it's a crazy character and I was, you know, he kept saying, go bigger, more and more.

I was like, really?

And he just, every time we did a take, I knew why, and every little detail, every little facial movement or intonation, and it made me, it kind of changed me.

I was a bit bored of acting, I was a bit sort of, I didn't, I wasn't very excited by it.

You know, I'd had all this success, I'd gone to Hollywood and I was a bit like, eh, and then Stanley, just working with him, I thought, oh, it can be really exciting and it can be really, you know, there's no, that thing, there's no small parts, only small actors, and actually any part, doesn't matter the size, the nuance and the impact you can make in the whole story can be huge and that really stuck with me and kinda revived my whole interest in acting, actually, and filmmaking.

- And he didn't know you were Scottish?

- (chuckles) No, he didn't know because... (audience laughing) Well 'cause he'd never met me, number one, and he- - And well, you played in American, I should say.

- Yes, so I was basically, I'd auditioned all these times.

It's set in New York in a hotel, and I flirt mercilessly with Tom Cruise.

(Alison and audience laughing) And like, it's awful, it's terrible.

It's so, it's the campiest thing I've ever done.

That's me saying that.

(audience laughing) And I had never met him and I'd auditioned all these times on tape and blah, blah.

So I arrive on the set, and it's weird when you're the new boy on a film and they've been doing it for a year, they're just so done, and they said, okay, Alan, come to the set now for rehearsal.

And it was, there was Tom Cruise and Stanley Kubrick.

I was like, ha, hello.

(audience laughing) And I'd met Tom before and he was very nice.

And I said, "hi Stanley, I'm Alan."

And he went, "you're not American."

That's how he went, and I was like, I was like, "I know, I'm Scottish."

And he went, "you were American on the tape," like that.

And I was, in my head, I was like, oh, just back in your box, Stanley Kubrick.

It's 6:00 AM, I'm just, you know, I've auditioned.

I was just, I was furious.

And he went, "yeah, but you were American on the tape."

And I went, "yeah, that's because I'm an actor, Stanley."

(Alison and audience laughing) (upbeat smooth music) - Alan's experience on "Eyes Wide Shut" reignited his passion for acting at a time when he needed it most and served as a reminder that authenticity is crucial to the art of storytelling.

And for Alan, truth isn't just reserved for his characters, it's how he lives his life out loud.

His personal story has resonated with fans around the world as he explored trauma, identity, and healing in his bestselling memoirs, "Baggage" and "Not My Father's Son."

In "Baggage," you mentioned, and you talk about your childhood, and I know in "Not My Father's Son," you really delve into your, I use the word relationship with your father and the abusive nature of that, and how you really, your authenticity there, your truth, and to share that, was not just very vulnerable, but painful.

I think, I know for you, but also for all of us who read it.

- Yeah.

- Why was that important to you to share that story?

You are, I think everybody says it, you're such a joyful person and to bring that to bear, how hard was that for you?

- It was quite hard, but I mean, I think in a funny way, the reason, I am a joyful person, and when all- Basically what happened was, you know, all that stuff happened to me in my childhood, that was a long, a long time ago, but then when I had that summer where I, you know, both I found out my grandfather died playing Russian roulette in Malaysia and my father came back into my life and told me I wasn't his son, it was just, he was back in my life again, and he was dominating it and I couldn't stop, like, I just couldn't, like, I would get in a cab and the guy would go, "hey, how are you?"

I go, "well, actually, my father just told me I'm not his son and my grandfather died in Malaysia playing Russian roulette."

It was just insane and I felt like I had to tell the story, partly because I was dealing, again, with stuff from my childhood that I'd kind of not pushed away, but I didn't let infuse my, you know, I choose to stand in the light.

- Yeah.

- And, but then that happened that summer and I felt I had to sort of explain to people to be authentic again, to tell the whole story, which was that, I am this person, but this is also me and I've not really shown people that, and it was also, but it was also an act of great therapy for me to blurt it out and to tell this story because you know when there's something you can't, you're obsessed by it, and it was obviously an insane thing to have to happen where your father, after not seeing him for decades and decades, tells you that you're not his biological son, and for then, that not to be true... - Right.

- After you get a DNA test, I mean, it was just insane.

I guess I couldn't not tell it and I had to just, and so the way for me to deal with it was to write this book and so in doing, I kind of had to go back to my childhood and explain.

I mean, when people say to me, "oh, I'm reading your book," I always go, "which one?"

(Alison laughing) Because when they say, "Not My Father's Son," I'm like, oh, you know, gird your loins.

- Yeah.

- It's a lot.

And especially for people who know me.

Like, so many people were just so upset and shocked because they, and people I went to school with as well were saying, I didn't know, I wish I could have done something.

And they couldn't, you know, and that's the thing, they couldn't, but me telling the story is the best thing, them receiving my story is the best thing they could do.

- How did your mom react?

- Well, I let her and my brother read it before it went to press and she had a few things.

I mean, I was, I thought she was going to be...

I mean, I told her I was writing it, I told her, but I didn't think she had any idea about how much, and there was things in it she didn't know as well of some of the horrible things, and so she gave me a few notes about things that were very little, she wrote this little, it's so sweet, I've still got it, very sort of minimal, and sometimes things that were actually protecting my dad, which I found really touching.

But then what was amazing, my big worry was that I was going to, you know, I was gonna change the world's perception of me, but my mom and my brother are gonna be dragged into that.

- You thought in a negative way, you were gonna change.

- I thought, I didn't know how it would be received, and I didn't.

I just felt, you know, I'm decided to do this.

Yes, perhaps negative, but I just felt that I was scared about what was gonna be the effect on my mom and my brother everywhere 'cause it was a huge splash.

But what was so incredible was that when it came out and I did a book tour in Britain and I did the first one in Edinburgh and my mom and my brother came to that and everybody, when I said they were there, everybody clapped and sort of gave them a standing ovation and then this thing that had been so shameful- I mean, the thing about abuse is that you are, you protect your abuser and you're ashamed that people are going to find out that this is happening and so something that had been so shameful for us, all three of us, and obviously it was a long time ago, and the various things happened that I also talk about in the book, that we'd sort of placed it in a way that made it easier for us to deal with.

Nonetheless, this was putting into a much different arena and to see them understanding that people were loving and supportive of them as survivors was incredible.

And it was, and also I think that the response I've had over the years from people who've said it's helped them, me talking about it, talking about abuse and talking about surviving has inspired so many people to deal with things in their lives, to confront a family member or to- There's a lady who, an incredible woman from Israel said that she had had a stillborn child and she could never been able to talk about it and she read my book and she realized she had to talk about it.

And she sends me these little, she puts these little stickers up all over Tel Aviv and with a quote from me on it about choosing to stand in the light.

"I have darkness, but I choose to stand in the light."

And stuff like that has been so incredible and utterly unexpected, I have to say.

I had no idea that that was going to, I still get, you know, letters and things about that.

So that's another great byproduct of being open and authentic.

- So a few months ago, I was in New York and I was staying in the Lower East Side and after seeing a Broadway show, my husband and I go to a place called Club Cumming.

- Oh, you did?

Oh, great.

- It was fabulous.

(Alan laughing) Except I thought you were gonna be working as a bartender.

I was very disappointed you weren't working that night.

- Well... - But there was a guy named Tim Young who was playing piano, and he was taking requests and I will say he did not know how to play "Delta Dawn" by Helen Reddy.

Still disappointed, but he finally got back to me, it was about 10 to midnight, and it was like one of the last requests.

He says, "where's Alison?"

I said, "I'm here," and he says, "all right, I can't play the song you requested, so give me whatever other request you want."

And he has a whole list, and I said, "well, Tim, you've brought us so much joy tonight."

We were there for about two and a half hours.

I said, "you've brought us so much joy tonight.

I just want you to play something that brings you joy."

And so my final question to you is, Alan, you've brought us so much joy tonight, and in everything you've done, what brings you the most joy?

- Well, it's not my work, it's not, it's not, it's not.

(audience laughing) It's just having...

It's being with my husband and our dogs in our house in the country.

I think one of the great things about, well, sounds terrible to say, but one of the great things about COVID was I think for many people it rebooted you in your life and you found out, you learned a lot.

We all learned such a lot.

And for me, I realized that I like working and everything like that, but I don't need it, and what I do love and need is having time with him and our dogs in this beautiful house that I've built and I love having people into it.

And so I just, the idea of home is what brings me joy and it's also something to do with privacy in that you're able to bring people into your, you don't have to be out in view of everyone.

That's where I really feel great, great joy.

And I just, I just love pottering around.

And I realized also, another thing I love is traveling on my own.

I actually really enjoy being a sort of intrepid traveler and going to funny places like Chattanooga on my own.

(Alison laughing) I went to Bhutan on my own.

Well, I went with some other people, but I went to, I didn't take my husband and I actually really enjoy kind of getting in touch with yourself because you're not having to think about anyone else or perform for anyone else or to be, you know, you're actually just there.

I actually, that I've come to realize brings me joy, too.

But mostly if I was, you know, I think it's a terrible thing that in the midst of all the death and horribleness of COVID, I actually found great joy and simplicity in my life.

and that's what I'm really trying to hold on to.

- Well, thank you for your truth, for your authenticity, for everything you do to expand the roles that you take on so that you can expand the joy that you bring all of us.

- Oh, thank you, and I'll try to be at Club Cumming next time.

- Oh, you better be there.

- What's your drink of choice?

- Oh yeah, Old Fashioned.

- Oh, I can do that.

- All right.

- Thanks, Alison.

- Thanks, Alan.

(Alan chuckling) (audience applauding) - Thank you, thank you very much.

- Thank you.

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